Employees shouldn’t rely only on their bosses to take decisions: Marten Pieters, CEO, Vodafone
If
there's one man who deserves to be called Indian telecom's toreador,
it's Marten Pieters of Vodafone. When most MNC CEOs prefer to keep
mum about India's maze of regulations and shifty policy regime,
Pieters speaks his mind -- always and on record. Within six years of
taking charge of Vodafone's Indian operations, Pieters has made sure
that Vodafone is consistently counted amongst the top players in the
industry. In a freewheeling chat with CD, Pieters talks about
living life without a mentor, Indian quick fixes and why he would
never join Bharti. Edited
excerpts.
You've worked across geographies. How do you adjust to the different cultures?
I had been running an international business for KPN, the Dutch incumbent operator for many years. I came to India for the first time in 1995 to gauge an acquisition. I was completely used to working with different cultures, so it wasn't really difficult. The only thing I had to do, which I've done, is adjust my personal management style a bit. I was more democratic than Indian people were used to.
In Holland, it's very much about teamwork and it becomes the team decision. In India it's more like willingness to debate, but you take the decision as you're the boss. That was not in my system. I've shifted a bit towards that system but I think I've also had my colleagues shifting a lot towards where I am, meaning that they shouldn't rely only on their boss to take the decisions. In many Indian companies all decisions are taken at the top and other people execute and it doesn't build people. Delegating everything to the boss is very easy because you never make a mistake that way as it's not your decision.
What have been a few inflection points which have helped you grow as a leader?
When I was in KPN, I was heading several businesses but I was there also when the internet bubble burst in 2000-01. We nearly went broke and that was just when I had come into the board. My timing was really bad because I was appointed when the business was already going down. I had three years there which were really difficult. Before that, I had black hair. But when you come out of it, you realize that it also builds a lot of strength.
Is India a frustrating place to do business?
This is a difficult business to be in. I find it difficult to deal with the regulation because it's very often too complicated and it is actually not really helping the business or even the country. So that is the frustrating part of it. But is it the most difficult job I've done as CEO? No, absolutely not, although it might be a very complicated environment. KPN was much more difficult because there we were fighting bankruptcy, firing thousands of people, gaining an extremely bad reputation. Here it is positively tough, because we are growing the business, we are building value, the people are happy and you can see it from the surveys. We are being appreciated by our shareholders, our board, and that gives us energy.
Bharti has operations in Africa and India and you have worked in both geographies successfully. Are you on Sunil Mittal's hire list?
I can't comment on this question. But I would say I would never swap companies because doesn't go with my values. I have no problem with the people in Bharti, but we're competing. You need to show loyalty and you need to believe in what you're doing.
You've worked across geographies. How do you adjust to the different cultures?
I had been running an international business for KPN, the Dutch incumbent operator for many years. I came to India for the first time in 1995 to gauge an acquisition. I was completely used to working with different cultures, so it wasn't really difficult. The only thing I had to do, which I've done, is adjust my personal management style a bit. I was more democratic than Indian people were used to.
In Holland, it's very much about teamwork and it becomes the team decision. In India it's more like willingness to debate, but you take the decision as you're the boss. That was not in my system. I've shifted a bit towards that system but I think I've also had my colleagues shifting a lot towards where I am, meaning that they shouldn't rely only on their boss to take the decisions. In many Indian companies all decisions are taken at the top and other people execute and it doesn't build people. Delegating everything to the boss is very easy because you never make a mistake that way as it's not your decision.
What have been a few inflection points which have helped you grow as a leader?
When I was in KPN, I was heading several businesses but I was there also when the internet bubble burst in 2000-01. We nearly went broke and that was just when I had come into the board. My timing was really bad because I was appointed when the business was already going down. I had three years there which were really difficult. Before that, I had black hair. But when you come out of it, you realize that it also builds a lot of strength.
Is India a frustrating place to do business?
This is a difficult business to be in. I find it difficult to deal with the regulation because it's very often too complicated and it is actually not really helping the business or even the country. So that is the frustrating part of it. But is it the most difficult job I've done as CEO? No, absolutely not, although it might be a very complicated environment. KPN was much more difficult because there we were fighting bankruptcy, firing thousands of people, gaining an extremely bad reputation. Here it is positively tough, because we are growing the business, we are building value, the people are happy and you can see it from the surveys. We are being appreciated by our shareholders, our board, and that gives us energy.
Bharti has operations in Africa and India and you have worked in both geographies successfully. Are you on Sunil Mittal's hire list?
I can't comment on this question. But I would say I would never swap companies because doesn't go with my values. I have no problem with the people in Bharti, but we're competing. You need to show loyalty and you need to believe in what you're doing.
Whom
do you consider your mentors along the way?
I have to admit something horrible: I've never had coaching and mentoring in my whole life. I'm a self-made man. Maybe, that's one of my weaknesses, because I'm incredibly independent, which sometimes makes me difficult to deal with.
What is the Marten Pieters' principle of management?
I put people first, not because I'm a softie, but because I strongly believe that companies are built by people. You need a product, you need something to sell, but whatever you sell, it's being made and thought and innovated by people. I have changed jobs but I've never changed people too much. I only change people if I totally disagree or clash on an emotional level. But for the rest, I've always worked with the team that I found when I came in somewhere. You put people in setting where their best comes out and then make sure they are all aligned. You can have top football players but not necessarily the best team.
How do you achieve buy-in in that case?
When I came here, I put the whole team into a room for three days. I brought in a London Business School psychologist who did a full assessment of every individual. Everyone put it on the table, his full assessment. We discussed our strong points, weak points openly. That was a bit of an issue because people were very upset by some of the observations. But once you got through that process there was a lot more transparency in the team because I knew actually what others were thinking about me. The outcome of that process was that we let one team member go because we concluded this is what we want, everyone buys in and if one says it won't work then you need to change someone. It starts with transparency. It helps that you like your colleague but it's not absolute necessary.
I have to admit something horrible: I've never had coaching and mentoring in my whole life. I'm a self-made man. Maybe, that's one of my weaknesses, because I'm incredibly independent, which sometimes makes me difficult to deal with.
What is the Marten Pieters' principle of management?
I put people first, not because I'm a softie, but because I strongly believe that companies are built by people. You need a product, you need something to sell, but whatever you sell, it's being made and thought and innovated by people. I have changed jobs but I've never changed people too much. I only change people if I totally disagree or clash on an emotional level. But for the rest, I've always worked with the team that I found when I came in somewhere. You put people in setting where their best comes out and then make sure they are all aligned. You can have top football players but not necessarily the best team.
How do you achieve buy-in in that case?
When I came here, I put the whole team into a room for three days. I brought in a London Business School psychologist who did a full assessment of every individual. Everyone put it on the table, his full assessment. We discussed our strong points, weak points openly. That was a bit of an issue because people were very upset by some of the observations. But once you got through that process there was a lot more transparency in the team because I knew actually what others were thinking about me. The outcome of that process was that we let one team member go because we concluded this is what we want, everyone buys in and if one says it won't work then you need to change someone. It starts with transparency. It helps that you like your colleague but it's not absolute necessary.
What
has the Indian market taught you?
Two things. One is that India has the most incredible people. So I'm incredibly in love with India because of its people. They are hard working, they're typically very smart. There is no challenge they say no to. It is an incredibly positive, energised culture. If you go to Africa, it's far more difficult. People are smart but to get it all working in the right direction is far more difficult there.
Two, I've never worked in a market that has this scale effect. If you come from Europe with small numbers it is very difficult to understand how it works. We have 120,000 telecom towers in India, more than the whole Vodafone group in the rest of the world. If we want to change something on these towers, it happens more or less overnight. If you would try to do that in the rest of the world, it will take six months at least.
There's a downside there too. They might have to deal with much more compliance rules, and sometimes here, the fix is a quick fix. But it does the job in the short term. That's one thing Indian companies need to realize when they internationalize. You can't think I have been a success in India, I'll be a success somewhere else also. It doesn't work that way. Suddenly you will find that scale element doesn't work and you are in a very different business model.
When you go through tough times, where do you seek solace?
You need to be able to switch off your mind from those problems and do something else. I take regular holidays because that allows me to switch off. If you take one or two days off, it's too short to really switch off. When you take a week, or two weeks, you are better able to switch off. And then the mind comes to rest and you come back and you're refreshed again.
Overtime, I have learnt to switch off, more or less, any moment I want. I couldn't do that 10 years ago because typically if there's lot stress, you take it home. I can now blend work with relaxation by blocks of 15 minutes literally, because I never stop working. In the weekend, I answer my mails and immediately reply. But at the same time, I can be enjoying myself sitting in a coffee shop reading a magazine or watching a movie at home. That's something you learn with age.
Two things. One is that India has the most incredible people. So I'm incredibly in love with India because of its people. They are hard working, they're typically very smart. There is no challenge they say no to. It is an incredibly positive, energised culture. If you go to Africa, it's far more difficult. People are smart but to get it all working in the right direction is far more difficult there.
Two, I've never worked in a market that has this scale effect. If you come from Europe with small numbers it is very difficult to understand how it works. We have 120,000 telecom towers in India, more than the whole Vodafone group in the rest of the world. If we want to change something on these towers, it happens more or less overnight. If you would try to do that in the rest of the world, it will take six months at least.
There's a downside there too. They might have to deal with much more compliance rules, and sometimes here, the fix is a quick fix. But it does the job in the short term. That's one thing Indian companies need to realize when they internationalize. You can't think I have been a success in India, I'll be a success somewhere else also. It doesn't work that way. Suddenly you will find that scale element doesn't work and you are in a very different business model.
When you go through tough times, where do you seek solace?
You need to be able to switch off your mind from those problems and do something else. I take regular holidays because that allows me to switch off. If you take one or two days off, it's too short to really switch off. When you take a week, or two weeks, you are better able to switch off. And then the mind comes to rest and you come back and you're refreshed again.
Overtime, I have learnt to switch off, more or less, any moment I want. I couldn't do that 10 years ago because typically if there's lot stress, you take it home. I can now blend work with relaxation by blocks of 15 minutes literally, because I never stop working. In the weekend, I answer my mails and immediately reply. But at the same time, I can be enjoying myself sitting in a coffee shop reading a magazine or watching a movie at home. That's something you learn with age.
By
Vinod Mahanta, CDET 14 Nov, 2014
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